Acidpants220
Member
I'm an A Ninja. level 19 Shinobi in fact. Need Someone Wacked? Ask me about 2 for 1 tuesdays!
Posts: 17
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Post by Acidpants220 on May 25, 2005 21:58:01 GMT -5
ahem.......the point of this is to prove me wrong.
The World was created last tuesday.
all memories predating last tuesday are false. all records predating last tuesday were forged.
prove me wrong.
;D
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Post by cheesechick on May 25, 2005 22:09:14 GMT -5
This isn't really a Philosophy debate. Well actually, it could turn into one depending on your response... this could easily go into reality and existence. Want to be proven wrong? Go look at a science book. Not good enough? Prove it was created last Tuesday. Prove that there's a power great enough to create everything in the world and every creature and give them false memories.
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Lindsey
Member
"Do you want me to get naked and start the revolution?"
Posts: 35
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Post by Lindsey on May 25, 2005 22:29:00 GMT -5
Ahh, it's like 1984, kinda... best book in the whole world.....
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Post by Stealthhawk on May 25, 2005 22:48:47 GMT -5
ahem.......the point of this is to prove me wrong. The World was created last tuesday. all memories predating last tuesday are false. all records predating last tuesday were forged. prove me wrong. ;D Ahhh Indeed that is instresting, you cant be proven wrong, however you cant prove you arnt completely fallicous either, so the world is a big void now. Ummm you cant prove everything in a science book, look up deducitve and inductive reasoning, also realize science has been wrong before and thats why the term Theory is in place, and alot of things are currently theory. Not to say I dont agree with you but axoim's of our world are based on our own perspection of reality and sense its different for everyone there is no unverisal truth unless we all accept the same definiton, which we dont.
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Post by cheesechick on May 25, 2005 23:11:23 GMT -5
ahem.......the point of this is to prove me wrong. The World was created last tuesday. all memories predating last tuesday are false. all records predating last tuesday were forged. prove me wrong. ;D Ahhh Indeed that is instresting, you cant be proven wrong, however you cant prove you arnt completely fallicous either, so the world is a big void now. Ummm you cant prove everything in a science book, look up deducitve and inductive reasoning, also realize science has been wrong before and thats why the term Theory is in place, and alot of things are currently theory. Not to say I dont agree with you but axoim's of our world are based on our own perspection of reality and sense its different for everyone there is no unverisal truth unless we all accept the same definiton, which we dont. I know what deductive and inductive reasoning is. =P But in an argument like this you pretty much have to take science into account. Anyway, if you want to argue something that can't be proven or disproven (and offer no proof of your own -- yay, one-sided arguments!!) this will just go nowhere. If you're going to look at scientific facts and say there's no such thing as facts and there is no objective reality this debate can't progress. =p I don't particularly understand this debate... I can't prove you wrong, but you can't prove anything either, so all in all it doesn't really matter. If you're trying to prove we can't disprove you, good job at pointing out the obvious. And if you are trying to prove this by saying we can't disprove you it's an argument from ignorance and therefore a logical fallacy. Err, and to stealthhawk: What you said is itself a philosophical statement not accepted by everyone; there are philosophies that state there are objective realities and perception doesn't dictate axioms.
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Post by Stealthhawk on May 25, 2005 23:25:47 GMT -5
Im fully aware but the axoim statements are based on perspective ok for example.
this text is red The text above is red but to a color blind person it may not be, but what trust to know about colors is how we experance them ourselfs and hence by our own personal perspective we define the color red, by such.
Such little simple axioms define our universe, example heres another.
There are only so many logical things we can observe. Example A = A (Property of Idenity) A AND B (Property of combination dont remember the offical name) A NOT B (A isnt B or also known as the negative expression denoting a object isnt the same as another by diffence) A OR B (A or B , meaning a object can be this or not that)
Thats all that exists, only way we can logically organize things to gether, yes there are more logical expressiones like AND those 2 things are NOT That. However its more along the lines of using the Not property and the And one together. So its a dervied logical expression based on the axoims above.
So you see logical axoim's cant be made up, its how we think, but axoim's that describe our unverise can always be in question to perspective.
Ok another example is scientists have a theory quarks are held together by glurons. This may possably be fact but it isnt. If you study CERN labs you realize they draw conclusions from tests, but the tests dont directly say glurons exist, just a something is being transfered to hold quarks together. If you dont know what quarks are (sorry im not saying your stupid i just cant assume everyone knows) they are particules found smaller then protons and neutrons, that make matter up, well 3rd generation matter anyway.
Point is nothing is EVER so direct, and perspective is always in play even with tests and our creation of facts by inductive anaysis.
Anyway im done for now.
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Post by visibleducts on May 25, 2005 23:30:34 GMT -5
I personally think there is no such thing as reality. The "world" as "we" know it can not be proven period. It is impossible to live outside your own perception, and as such, it is impossible to prove there is anything beyond your perception. Thusly, I propose that all of you are mere creatures of my imagination put here to create an interesting existence for me. However, this would also mean that I am a masochist seeing as how the majority of existence is rather pitiful and frustrating.
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Post by cheesechick on May 25, 2005 23:35:03 GMT -5
Im fully aware but the axoim statements are based on perspective ok for example. this text is redThe text above is red but to a color blind person it may not be, but what trust to know about colors is how we experance them ourselfs and hence by our own personal perspective we define the color red, by such. Such little simple axioms define our universe, example heres another. There are only so many logical things we can observe. Example A = A (Property of Idenity) A AND B (Property of combination dont remember the offical name) A NOT B (A isnt B or also known as the negative expression denoting a object isnt the same as another by diffence) A OR B (A or B , meaning a object can be this or not that) Thats all that exists, only way we can logically organize things to gether, yes there are more logical expressiones like AND those 2 things are NOT That. However its more along the lines of using the Not property and the And one together. So its a dervied logical expression based on the axoims above. So you see logical axoim's cant be made up, its how we think, but axoim's that describe our unverise can always be in question to perspective. Ok another example is scientists have a theory quarks are held together by glurons. This may possably be fact but it isnt. If you study CERN labs you realize they draw conclusions from tests, but the tests dont directly say glurons exist, just a something is being transfered to hold quarks together. If you dont know what quarks are (sorry im not saying your stupid i just cant assume everyone knows) they are particules found smaller then protons and neutrons, that make matter up, well 3rd generation matter anyway. Point is nothing is EVER so direct, and perspective is always in play even with tests and our creation of facts by inductive anaysis. Anyway im done for now. Yes yes I know all this stuff. I'm not a Philosophy/Logic n00b. But again, you kept saying that not everyone agrees on axioms and stuff therefore it's all up to perception, but the last thing you said there you said like an empirical fact, when of course, not everyone agrees with that. =p
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Post by visibleducts on May 25, 2005 23:37:16 GMT -5
There are only so many logical things we can observe. Example A = A (Property of Idenity) A AND B (Property of combination dont remember the offical name) A NOT B (A isnt B or also known as the negative expression denoting a object isnt the same as another by diffence) A OR B (A or B , meaning a object can be this or not that) These so called "logic rules", are only as true as I percieve them to be.
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Post by Stealthhawk on May 25, 2005 23:44:39 GMT -5
Im fully aware but the axoim statements are based on perspective ok for example. this text is redThe text above is red but to a color blind person it may not be, but what trust to know about colors is how we experance them ourselfs and hence by our own personal perspective we define the color red, by such. Such little simple axioms define our universe, example heres another. There are only so many logical things we can observe. Example A = A (Property of Idenity) A AND B (Property of combination dont remember the offical name) A NOT B (A isnt B or also known as the negative expression denoting a object isnt the same as another by diffence) A OR B (A or B , meaning a object can be this or not that) Thats all that exists, only way we can logically organize things to gether, yes there are more logical expressiones like AND those 2 things are NOT That. However its more along the lines of using the Not property and the And one together. So its a dervied logical expression based on the axoims above. So you see logical axoim's cant be made up, its how we think, but axoim's that describe our unverise can always be in question to perspective. Ok another example is scientists have a theory quarks are held together by glurons. This may possably be fact but it isnt. If you study CERN labs you realize they draw conclusions from tests, but the tests dont directly say glurons exist, just a something is being transfered to hold quarks together. If you dont know what quarks are (sorry im not saying your stupid i just cant assume everyone knows) they are particules found smaller then protons and neutrons, that make matter up, well 3rd generation matter anyway. Point is nothing is EVER so direct, and perspective is always in play even with tests and our creation of facts by inductive anaysis. Anyway im done for now. Yes yes I know all this stuff. I'm not a Philosophy/Logic n00b. But again, you kept saying that not everyone agrees on axioms and stuff therefore it's all up to perception, but the last thing you said there you said like an empirical fact, when of course, not everyone agrees with that. =p No not everyone agrees with it, which comes to show we can view axoims all differently ok and im not saying your a philosophy/logic n00b, i never assumed you were, but im talking to the whole fourm, not just you so i had to explain it so get off my case.
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Post by visibleducts on May 25, 2005 23:45:20 GMT -5
Yes yes I know all this stuff. I'm not a Philosophy/Logic n00b. But again, you kept saying that not everyone agrees on axioms and stuff therefore it's all up to perception, but the last thing you said there you said like an empirical fact, when of course, not everyone agrees with that. =p No not everyone agrees with it, which comes to show we can view axoims all differently ok and im not saying your a philosophy/logic n00b, i never assumed you were, but im talking to the whole fourm, not just you so i had to explain it so get off my case. DANCE PUPPETS!!!!
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Post by Stealthhawk on May 25, 2005 23:46:30 GMT -5
No not everyone agrees with it, which comes to show we can view axoims all differently ok and im not saying your a philosophy/logic n00b, i never assumed you were, but im talking to the whole fourm, not just you so i had to explain it so get off my case. DANCE PUPPETS!!!! LOL lol ooook please on your way out of reality do take the purple pill not the blue on as the blue one doesnt solve dllusion lol
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Post by visibleducts on May 25, 2005 23:48:34 GMT -5
LOL lol ooook please on your way out of reality do take the purple pill not the blue on as the blue one doesnt solve dllusion lol LOL!!!11 You might percieve that the blue pill doesn't solve dillusion, but as I have already pointed out your perception is my perception of your perception. So I say again "DANCE PUPPETS!!!"
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Post by cheesechick on May 25, 2005 23:49:32 GMT -5
Yes yes I know all this stuff. I'm not a Philosophy/Logic n00b. But again, you kept saying that not everyone agrees on axioms and stuff therefore it's all up to perception, but the last thing you said there you said like an empirical fact, when of course, not everyone agrees with that. =p No not everyone agrees with it, which comes to show we can view axoims all differently ok and im not saying your a philosophy/logic n00b, i never assumed you were, but im talking to the whole fourm, not just you so i had to explain it so get off my case. It shows that we can all view axioms differently, but that doesn't prove anything. It doesn't prove, for instance, that there is no objective reality. There could be an objective reality and everyone who doesn't believe it is wrong. If you believe in Santa, but I know there's no such thing, sure we view things differently - but one view is wrong. If that makes sense. I'm having trouble wording my thoughts correctly. Sorry, I don't mean to offend or anything. But... I dunno, I just get annoyed when people stop to explain basic premises in arguments. If two people are arguing biology and one stops to explain photosynthesis, it just slows things down. The only people who are going to get involved in a debate are the people who already know what they're talking about.
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Post by Stealthhawk on May 25, 2005 23:50:04 GMT -5
LOL lol ooook please on your way out of reality do take the purple pill not the blue on as the blue one doesnt solve dllusion lol LOL!!!11 You might percieve that the blue pill doesn't solve dillusion, but as I have already pointed out your perception is my perception of your perception. So I say again "DANCE PUPPETS!!!" Just as your perception is my perception which means you imply a cicular reasoning which really is kindof funny
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